I recently made a new friend, and one of his favorite games is “Choices” – wherein you give someone a choice and they have to make up their minds, then you have the opportunity to try to change their mind. Of course the choices are always sucky. My friend has learned that my kryptonite is a BJJ black belt, but on the opposite end is bad BO.
Now I present you with a choice, and in the spirit of the game, it’s not the best choice, but I’d love your answer.
You can choose: a BJJ instructor who is a single belt ahead of you and speaks your language, or a BJJ black belt who you don’t share a common language with.
So for me, it would be an English speaking purple belt or a Korean speaking black belt. ^_^
Obviously I chose a higher level instructor who doesn’t speak my language, but I think that had I had English instruction available to me I would have taken it when I started. I definitely haven’t grown as much as I could have, and part of that is not sharing a strong common language bond – so I miss a lot of the concepts, though I get the movements. For me, generally the AHA moments come when you can understand the principles underlying the movement.
What about you? The parameters are: one year of instruction. The lower belt: can explain concepts well but is only one belt above you. The black belt: zero translation is available, but he’s really great.
Make your choice!
Assuming both are optimally motivated (i.e. you’re not getting someone bored, arrogant, time-deprived, or otherwise disinterested in teaching)???
Black belt every time, hands down. We’ll go through LOTS of pantomime and lots of “hands-on” instruction, but I don’t care.
What if you were learning a brand new martial art – something you knew absolutely NOTHING about?
Zero interest in spending any time learning a new martial art.
Now, cross-training for BJJ– say, in Judo– I’d still say the blackbelt.
I also note your original hypothetical did not say anything about “group classes.” You said pick who would teach you. In a group context, I’d be effing pissed at the limits and find another school. But in private lessons? Language unnecessary.
I know tons of purple belts who know tons more than I do, don’t get me wrong, but I also appreciate their limits, and I don’t want to be a blue belt learning things only slightly better than I can do them, when I could be learning from a black belt.
Hahaha you are right, btw – I need to stop directing toward MY answer – so I’ve added more info to EVERYONE’S, because the goal is not to have them choose MY answer, the goal is to have them CHANGE THEIR MINDS.
🙂 It’s a fun game.
Okay Georgette – what if there were only one school available – like because you’re spending a year in a foreign country or something. It’s for one single year.
Nice question. For me quality instruction isn’t as important as atmosphere and comaraderie (sp?). I could train under a black belt easily here but I don’t because my coach is hilarious, builds a super fun atmosphere and the club culture is relaxed. This is a hobby for me not a career path, skill advancement is a by product not a main goal (oddly enough). So I think I’d get that better with an English speaker, the bonds would be easier to make and that’s more important to me. I’ll be doing this for another 30 years so there’s plenty of time for gaining skill – not enough for building friendships though
Interesting – I like your thinking 🙂
Okay – what if the black belt is more fun, and the lower belt is more serious?
It depends a lot!
Lemme give you an example: You don’t speak portuguese, but you have to choose between a Brazilian black belt or a American purple belt. Who would be?
I don’t really think that language boundaries has much to do with BJJ teaching.Many people come to Brazil and learn with portuguese-only instructors. Demonstrating the movement will show you what to do, repeating it thousand times will make you understand everything you need to figure out.
I’d always choose the one who have more things to teach me, and it actually doesn’t represents the color of his belt. This is the only attribute i would consider.
Yes, but is it usually a brand new white belt who doesn’t understand ANYTHING or is it a blue/purple/brown/black who already has a solid foundation.
If you were learning an absolutely brand new martial art that you knew NOTHING about, would that influence your choice? For me, I think as a brand new beginner it’s BETTER to learn from someone who can explain concepts. I know that right now I would benefit a LOT from learning more CONCEPTS, something that I often miss in my BJJ classes.
Okay, what if the purple belt were a better teacher?
The black belt, for sure. I actually had this happen… I went to Japan to compete, and decided I was going to hang out for a week and a half in Japan, training at a tiny gym in Nagoya. I knew about four words in Japanese: excuse me, thank you, green, and dick. No combination of these is a good sentence to make, trust me, I’ve thought about it. But something magical happened– by the end of the week and a half, not only did I have a lot of new friends (none of whom spoke any English, or very little) but I also understood the basics of BJJ/judo in Japanese. It’s a really cool experience, albeit a little frustrating sometimes.
What if this were a brand new martial art that you knew absolutely nothing about? Same?
Yeah, but then again, I’m kind of a weirdo like that. I thought it was really cool and really fun.
I can’t decide based on that! It’s not about belt level or language, it’s how the teacher’s teaching style clicks with your learning style.
Assume both click equally well.
I’d likely take the black belt with a foreign tongue…but that’s only now at blue belt. I feel like I could pick up enough of their language to get through anything that needs clarification.
So at white belt you’d pick the common language speaker?
I definitely would take the black belt, but I suppose it would also depend on how small the classes are. If it’s one-on-one instruction, then definitely yes to the black belt–(s)he can demonstrate what it is I need to do and what I’m doing wrong. IF, however, it’s a large class and I wouldn’t get that, then I might go with the one-belt-level-up (purple, in my case).
Interesting – if it’s a class of, say, 12-15.
What if you were brand new starting out in a brand new martial art? Still take the black belt?
12-15…I think I would still take the black belt. If I was just starting out…I think I would take the blue belt, because there’s a lot more to BJJ than just the moves. I enjoyed learning about the history and self-defense aspect, and that requires more than pantomime and demonstration.
this is actually often my situation and I find I progress much further and develop more solid basics with the native speaker one belt above me. I regularly work with black belts who share no common language with me and it is genuinely less helpful, even though they have the skillz. if they were also gifted with infinite patience, I might change my mind, but realistically both of us find it frustrating — them because I’m not able to grasp their movements and pantomiming quickly enough, and me because I can’t ask questions.
so assuming the one-belt-above person had been learning at a school I really respect, with a set of astonishingly good professors, and wasn’t just handed his or her belt? I’m choosing the native speaker one belt above. but I’m a white belt who’s prone to intellectualizing and it’s better to quickly master fundamentals for me, right now. if I were a purple belt I might choose otherwise.
That’s the conclusion i came to – as a n00b it’s really really helpful to be able to ask questions and understand underlying concepts – something you can’t always *get* if you are just copying the movements.
Okay, but I have to try to change your mind – what if this black belt is an amazing teacher? What if the class size was only – 6?
I don’t think language is the only barrier but teaching styles should also come into play. Some people just have a knack for instructing better then others and for me that’s more important than belt or language. I give you an example, we had an interim black belt 2 years when my coach was away and this black belt was a new black belt fresh off the boat from Brazil and spoke no English. Also he was more of a facilitator (helps the main instructor to organize the classes and not necessarily run them) at his old academy rather then a coach so we were actually his first batch of students under him of which he had full control off. His Jiu-jitsu is beautiful though, it’s flowy like water and to watch him roll was like watching water roll. He also plays a lot of advance guards and cutting edge techniques so it was always a show to see him roll.
In those months I think he was trying to figure out his teaching style and he was very very very green at teaching. I don’t think I learnt much during his sessions with us because he was teaching things a little too advance for all of us or he didn’t break down the technique enough that we could understand it.
On the other hand, since our coach is away now for a couple of months Aaron and Ian have taken over classes (u remember him? Short stocky blue belt guy and well Ian is just Ian I’m sure you remember him lol). I find Aaron is doing a great job at training us because he has a real talent for coaching and instructing. I find that he can breakdown a technique in a concise and simple enough way for majority of people to understand.
So going back to your question, if I was presented with Aaron/Ian or the Brazilian BB that spoke no English, I would at this point in time chose Aaron/Ian.
Again it’s not about language but more so about teaching styles. We had another Brazilian BB who spoke little to no English last year but because he taught very well via hand signals, I would obviously chose him over Aaron/Ian.
Though I think my answer will change as my belt rank increase. Had I more technical knowledge in BJJ during the time that Brazilian BB who spoke no English taught us (I was a white at that time barely under a year) I would probably have understood a lot more of his technique and that would change my answer again.
Nice, thoughtful reply. A+ 🙂 I do remember that Ian was running your class. He is a memorable guy, even if just because he’s the one Georgette posted about 😉
Plus it doesn’t hurt that Ian’s jiu jitsu is sick, sick, sick. And despite my whiny-baby episode, he’s a truly nice guy.
What if the black belt was a world class champion AND was teaching a class of only 6?
hmmm I’d have to take a class with that BB and see how it goes. If the BB makes things clear and explain things well (hand signals and body language) then for sure I’d pick the BB.
Though for now it’s Aaron/Ian 😛
Non-English speakers vary WIDELY in their ability to be able to make themselves understood. Some can get it across, and some cannot.
Totally agree, but there are some things that I think are just better when they can have some explanation behind them.
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Native speaker. I ask a LOT of questions, so I’d get extremely frustrated if I couldn’t communicate with the instructor outside of sign language. I also like an instructional style that is very detailed, which again I don’t find comes across well without the ability to explain it to me in words as well as actions. As long as they’re better than me at the technique I want to learn and are able to communicate that technique to me, I don’t care what their rank is.
What if the black belt were teaching a class of only 6 and had extremely clear body language?
Or – the black belt had a translator half the time?
Still no. Body language can only take you so far. I had that problem with my Turkish grandmother: many years of shaking my head and apologising in helpless frustration as she tried to say something simple, like “can you go get some melons?” At best you eventually pick up a few words, but it’s impossible to have a nuanced conversation that way.
I’ve also been frustrated in the translator scenario, which I’ve experienced both in BJJ class and when doing interviews. The conversation takes at least twice as long, with the limited reward of short, muffled answers.
Also, if their body language was THAT clear – and even more if they have a translator – aren’t you kinda cheating on your premise, as then they almost DO speak my language? 😉